'Doing justice is not taking revenge'

by Samangie WETTIMUNY

Ven. Ajahn Brahmavamso Thera

Q: We come across different types of people in society. Some are popular and their company is always sought after. Some are not so. What meritorious acts should people indulge in during this birth to be reborn as popular in their next birth?

A: If you are to be reborn as a person who is popular, a person who is adored by all, you should be extremely generous. For example you should always engage in meritorious deeds - you should give dhana to monks, you have to be generous to your friends, parents and relatives. You have to reach out for them whenever your assistance is required. Your mother may need a lift to go to the market or your friend would need your help as his child is sick. Such people who are generous with their time, and resources, who can share and forgive others would become very popular in their next birth.

Q:During the period of the Buddha there were kings who imposed severe punishments on wrong-doers. Did the rulers have to face the consequences of their decisions? Did the Buddha interfere with the rules of government.

A: No, He did not. He advised the government. But people had so much faith in the Buddha that even a king who went to war could still be reborn in heaven like what happened to King Bimbisara. Even though they executed many people and waged wars, they never went to hell. Why was that? The reason is because they had enough faith in the Buddha, Dhamma and the Sangha. They knew how to forgive.

Q: To forgive themselves?

A: People do not realise the power of forgiveness. In Buddhism there is a `hell' world. Who sends you to hell? Yourself. Any psychologist would tell you the mental trauma and guilt a person undergoes if he commits a wrong deed. He/she would require years of psychotherapy to get over the guilt. So why do we have to be the one who `teaches them a lesson'.

But if you know the power of forgiveness, you can forgive anything - you can forgive others for their faults or you can forgive your own faults. You do not need a Jesus to forgive you. A Buddha cannot forgive you. The only person who can grant forgiveness is yourself. Buddha always encouraged forgiveness. He was a compassionate teacher. Even when people tried to kill him he forgave them immediately and taught them Dhamma and all his assailants ultimately became his disciples. That is the power of forgiveness. Let go of your past and free yourself. No need to go to hell again.

We do not have punishment in Buddhism. You only punish yourself. You have to understand in forgiveness and let it go. So I think the kings had understood that. They had realized that in their positions they had to do that. That was part of their job. So they forgave themselves. And tried not to act out of illwill. Even the president of Sri Lanka, a devout Buddhist has been waging a war against the Tamil Tigers.

Q: Some people who had been addicted to lots of unethical activities during their youth would tend to compensate for those acts by engaging in meritorious deeds towards the latter part of their lives. Is it possible?

A: They can. If they can let it all go they can change their whole lives. Just consider this example. When Nelson Mandela took over the presidency of South Africa after serving 27 years in prison the country was in chaos. Grave crimes had been committed by both the government and the ANC activists. Nelson Mandela instituted a novel way of dealing with the situation by establishing the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Anybody on either side who had committed a crime could go to this Commission, confess honestly on what they had done. If they confess they were given amnesty.

On one of these occasions a South African policeman was confessing how he tortured and killed a Black African activist. In front of him was this activist's widow listening to his confession in which he mentioned in detail how he had tortured and killed the man she loved, the father of her children, the person she devoted her whole life to. The policeman was still shivering in fear and was sobbing even after the testimony was over. At this point the widow o stood up and approached this man, not to take revenge as many would have thought,but instead held the man, gave him a hug and said. "I forgive you."

It was such a moving moment, a beautiful act of forgiveness that the whole court started crying. A woman who just heard how her husband whom she loved dearly was taken away from her, how he was tortured and brutally murdered, had the inspiration to go up to the `criminal' and forgive him. If she can forgive the man who killed her husband why cannot you forgive who have done a much lesser wrong deed.

Q: But did not she do injustice to the deceased by forgiving his killer?

A: Injustice is not same as revenge. Sometimes people confuse finding justice with having revenge. That is not the way to do justice. Justice means finding the truth, having the just settlement, and move forth, not to carrying around the past.

Otherwise the world would be like Israel and the Gaza Strip. Endless wars, tit for tat - killings, revenge, and seeking a violent form of justice rather than two parties coming together, hugging each other and saying "I forgive you".

That is how a conflict should end. That is how we say to ourselves one day that whatever I have done in my youth, whatever I am doing now I forgive myself. That is justice and let it go. If you acknowledge what you did and learn from it, it is called `growth' in the Buddha's teaching. That is how you grow.

Q: But an ordinary person may find it very difficult to forgive others even though they may forgive themselves. Is it because our minds are not advanced enough?

A: It is because our society does not encourage forgiveness. This is a society which encourages revenge, which punishes wrong doers by sending them to jail. There they continue with their wrong deeds. The penal system of punishment has proved not to work worldwide. What is required is a penal system of rehabilitation - treating the ones who have committed crimes as being ill or not seeing things properly and treating them as an illness instead of punishing them as a crime. That is the way forward.

In many western countries, the number of prisoners in jail are on the rise. That means the present penal system of punishing the wrongdoers does not work.

They are punished, not rehabilitated. They need care, not anger. I am telling once again that real justice has nothing to do with revenge. Justice is healing a problem, solving the difficulties and moving on.

Q: Capital punishment should not be imposed?

A: Even the Buddha's suggestion was to do away with it. He saw it more than 2550 years ago. It does not work. No punishment. Healing, care, rehabilitation should be the key words.

If you make a mistake you should never punish yourself, nor should you punish your husband if he misbehaves. You have to find out what the problem is.

Q: Then won't he continue to misbehave?

A: That is his kamma. Your kamma is to forgive him. It is not just forgiving, but finding a strategy.

What's the problem? Together you work out the problem and together you find a solution. Forgiveness is not just saying `never mind', but making an attempt to stop the reasons which cause the difficulty. So rehabilitation is necessary.

Q: There are religions which require sacrifices of animals in the name of their respective Gods. They kill animals to please God. What is your opinion about such religions?

A: This is where religions tell you what to believe. Those are the religions which run on fear. They have no place in our modern world. Religions which do not run on fear, but on wisdom would tell you that it's bad to kill others for whatever reason.

If anyone says that if you kill yourself for your religion, and that is going to send you to heaven, I know as a fact that it does not.

If you kill other people, it is a bad, unskilful act. Unfortunately many religions scare people to believe in them. People don't use their own intelligence, they do not use reason, they just run on fear. Any real religion would say that blowing yourself up, in front of others is unskilled and bad. No way would anyone go to heaven if you kill others.

(The first part of the interview appeared last week.)

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Ajahn Brahmavamso thera was born in London in 1951. At the age of sixteen he regarded himself as a Buddhist after reading books written on Buddhism while still being at school. His interest in Buddhism became intense while studying Theoretical Physics at the Cambridge University.

Upon completion of his degree, after working as a teacher for one year, he travelled to Thailand to become a monk. He was ordained in Bangkok at the age of twenty-three by the abbot of Wat Saket. Afterwards, he spent nine years studying and training in the forest meditation tradition under Venerable Ajahn Chah thera.

Ajahn Brahm who arrived in Australia in 1983 on the invitation of his teacher Ajahn Chah to assist in the establishment of a forest monastery near Perth, Western Australia is now the Abbot of the Bodhinyana Monastery, Perth and the Spiritual Director of the Buddhist Society of Western Australia. The Thera's dhamma talks are available on www.bswa.org.

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